A NEW ‘super Gwent’ council merging Newport, Monmouthshire, Caerphilly, Blaenau Gwent and Torfaen makes logical sense, public services minister Leighton Andrews insisted.

The Williams report, commissioned by the Welsh Government to look into council mergers, stated that creating authorities as large as Gwent (taking in 600,000 people) would make it “difficult to meet multiple diverse local needs effectively, or to maintain fair democratic representation.”

It suggested that Newport and Monmouthshire could merge leaving Caerphilly, Torfaen and Blaenau Gwent as a second separate authority.

However, Mr Andrews said he had ditched this and other proposals put forward in the report because they “did not find favour.”

Mr Andrews said: “We think the logic of what we have proposed outweighed the concerns that Williams had.

“Developing a local government system which is coterminous with the health board area and the Gwent Police area seemed to us to be an attractive way of moving forward.

“There was clearly no consensus. I haven’t had anybody say to me that they prefer Williams to what I’m proposing, so far – but then, it has only been a few days. Who knows?”

The government published its preferred new map of local councils in Wales last Tuesday, which sees the number of authorities cut from 22 to eight or nine (the undecided area is whether there should be two or three councils in North Wales).

Mr Andrews said some Gwent councils did not have a strong track record, which was partly why he turned down the suggestion from Bleanau Gwent AM Alun Davies that Blaenau Gwent and Torfaen could merge with Monmouthshire.

“We’ve had a number of examples of service failure in the Gwent area – education in Torfaen, Blaenau Gwent and Monmouthshire and corporate failings in Blaenau Gwent”, he said. “Authorities that size are probably too small to deliver some services strategically.

“This is clearly a large authority we are talking about for Gwent but you have authorities in England of significant size.”

He said there would be more than 75 councillors “to ensure there is effective representation”.

But current ward boundaries might change, he said, and a commission would look at this

Asked how a council could take in Blaenau Gwent and Monmouthshire, the richest and poorest areas of Wales, Mr Andrews said: “In practice it’s important that we are able to cross-subsidise from richer areas to poorer areas and this will enable us to do that. We’ve got to look at the best way forward for the delivery of public services.”

Part of the projected savings for Gwent come from job losses, with Mr Andrews saying he anticipates the new authority, whatever it is called, will have around a third fewer councillors, in line with the rest of Wales.

But he said cuts to other public sector jobs would be a matter for the new council to decide on and said we are “rather a long way” from considering the effect on towns, for example, like Pontypool which rely on the council as a major employer.

“It’s not the meeting of full council that brings employment to Pontypool, it’s the existence of administrative and other jobs in that area”, he said, adding that rather than having one new headquarters for Gwent, there could be several: “I think in the digital age I’m not quite clear why we need one administrative centre. "People can work remotely.”

Monmouthshire and Caerphilly have both recently spent millions on new council buildings. Asked whether this was a mistake and if they should have been warned not to do so, Mr Andrews said: “I think the writing has been on the wall for local government reform for some time. Of course if local government had been prepared to collaborate better than it has we might have been prepared to go another route.

“I think people must take decisions that they feel are right for them. I’m not going to comment on decisions they have previously taken.”

Another issue will be the different policies on council housing taken by councils. Caerphilly opted to retain its council housing, while the other four transferred them to social landlords like Newport City Homes and Bron Afon in Torfaen. Mr Andrews claimed this was not a major issue, saying: “It would be quite possible for local authorities to retain housing stock in some areas, to develop house building in some areas and to work with strong community mutuals or registered social landlords in others. I think it provides flexibility and opportunity.”

Other policies could vary across the council, he said: “There is scope for different levels of council tax and that’s a matter for the local authority.”

Leader of Blaenau Gwent Council Hedley McCarthy said he was concerned Blaenau Gwent could be consigned to the “periphery of a new mega-council which will be distant and remote from the people it is supposed to serve.”

Mr Andrews said he did not see why this should be the case, saying the government had demonstrated its commitment to the area with investments including the new rail service and new hospital.

He hit back at claims he was gerrymandering, saying: “If I were simply trying to create a local government map in Wales where Labour could win power in the majority of areas, I wouldn’t be creating Dyfed for example in West Wales.”

The reforms are vital to protect frontline services, he claimed. “The KPMG report published 10 days ago suggesting savings of £151 million a year would be possible.”

Some would argue that after the initial saving has been made, it cannot be made again. But Mr Andrews said: “It’s not at all misleading. The kinds of savings that could be made would be available on a recurrent basis.”

In terms of a timeframe, he said we are a “long way” from the mergers themselves which would not take place until around 2020. “If Labour is back in power in 2016 then we will press ahead,” Mr Andrews said. “I think the map is unlikely to change.”