BACK to square one -- that is the outcome of talks by the nine Welsh premier division clubs into the Moffett plan.

Not only did the nine yesterday reject WRU/Millennium Stadium group chief executive David Moffett's plan for provincial rugby next season, they also failed to reach significant agreement among themselves.

They have pledged to try to cut the number of teams in the Heineken Cup and Celtic League from nine to five.

But that is as far as it goes - an agreement to change by reducing their numbers and no more.

But after attending yesterday's meeting, Ebbw Vale director of rugby Ray Harris was in positive mood and said it was time for the clubs to sit down and thrash out the details between themselves.

He said: "The clubs involved all need to get together. Now is the time for us to sort this out.

"Neath and Bridgend have decided they will work together, now they have got to put the finer details to their plan.

"But all the clubs have got to get round the table and get talking."

But behind the scenes the clubs are in turmoil about the make-up of the provincial sides, and they are no further forward now than they have been in the past months.

Moffett wanted certain combinations in a provincial set-up and though that has been rejected by the clubs, they have no great alternative.

Consequently, they have put off a proposed meeting with the WRU planned for tomorrow for at least another week while they try to sort it out.

Suggestions which have been made are that either Cardiff or Llanelli stand alone with various other mergers, including Newport with Ebbw Vale.

But that is not very likely after Ebbw Vale shut Newport owner Tony Brown out of their ground when the two sides clashed last season.

In fact, Newport could make a very good case - like Cardiff - to stand alone because of a certain financial independence and because of their facilities and commercial expertise.

And some clubs, Newport among them, reject the suggestion that Moffett can force through his provincial plan.

They stress that shareholders have to be consulted, clubs have to agree and contracts have to be sorted before anything can happen.

Heineken Cup chiefs could not, they say, simply accept new teams in their competition without agreement of existing clubs.

And that is not forthcoming at the moment because the leading nine clubs have unanimously rejected the Moffett plan.

But the Premier Division clubs need to start agreeing amongst themselves to take things on before they next meet on December 19.